Stuck in SNOW, ICE refuses to run, suspect VDIM

[spookysco]

My HiHy is stuck in a drift of snow in the middle of the street near my house. Unlike all other vehicles I have owned it simply sits there with the slip / traction light flashing when I apply the gas. On my BMW X5 there is a button to disable the traction control (not the right name) system.

I don't find such a switch and no matter what position the wheels are in or how much gas is applied the vechicle sits there totally unresponsive.

I found a similar function in the manual called VDIM, and suspect this is what the "problem" is.

Any ideas??

Sco

[efusco]

Yea, it's the TRAC or traction control which is part of the VDIM. The traction control is a bit more aggressive on the hybrids to prevent the MGs from spinning so fast that it could cause damage. This is not a vehicle that'll let you spin your tires to get out.

Realize this isn't an issue with the ICE, it's an issue with the drive system.

If you can get something to give you a bit of traction you should have more than enough torque to get yourself out of the drift. Also, some people have success using reverse which, apparently, doesn't engage the TRAC (though I don't know why that would be honestly).

Finally, there is a way to disable the TRAC for purposes of testing the car, I don't know it off the top of my head and it would be putting your vehicle at risk for serious damage to use it. But if you're determined you can probably find it in the manuals at the Toyota Tech site.

[spookysco]

I really don't care about the electric engines at this point. I just want the ICE engine to get me out. If there was a way to just "run" the gas engine, like in a normal car, spinning tires and all, this always seems to get me out...

Sco

[efusco]

Originally posted by spookysco@Dec 22 2006, 05:45 PM
I really don't care about the electric engines at this point.  I just want the ICE engine to get me out.  If there was a way to just "run" the gas engine, like in a normal car, spinning tires and all, this always seems to get me out...

Sco

[snapback]2007[/snapback]

Whether or not you care about them they're part of the HSD and are the primary drive motors for you. There is no way to just run the ICE to spin the tires, the front wheels are directly connected to MG2, if you have 4WDi the rear wheels are directly connected to MGR....there's no drive shaft or any direct connection to the ICE at all. The ICE won't run if it can't deliver power through the transaxle and MG2.

You just need to provide something to give the tires some grip and the electric motors, with the ICE, will pull you right out.

[Donrim]

Do you have 4WD or 2WD?

I have driven in relatively deep snow with the 4WD Highlander Hybrid with few problems. Once in a parking lot, I tried to drive slowly through a deep snow drift. The Highlander slowly bogged down pushing snow with the front bumper, and stopped and would not move forward. As I stepped on the gas pedal nothing happened - no engine revving or wheel spin - Just eerie quiet. The traction control prevented the wheels from any significant spin. Putting it into reverse, I was able to easily retreat though, and continue on avoiding the drift.

[spookysco]

Finally got out, had to be pulled out though!!! I put materials under the tires for traction, stepped on the gas, nothing. No noise, no spinning, nothing... The vehicle was obviously on, this is a problem.

I can see a problem in the mountains if you go off a paved road to a dirt road which climbs up the side of the mountain and there is spinning of the tires due to loose dirt, mud etc. This would prove to be dangerous since the ICE would not run, the electric motors (as already demonstrated) will not run and the vehicle would come to a stop. And, to top things off, you're on an incline.

There SHOULD be a way to disable this and run without the "benefits" of VDIM, as there are in other vehicles which have similar systems as VDIM.

I'm afraid this is not something I did not plan for nor did I expect. Might list my HyHi for sale after the holidays.

Totally unacceptable.

[efusco]

Originally posted by spookysco@Dec 24 2006, 05:39 PM
Finally got out, had to be pulled out though!!!  I put materials under the tires for traction, stepped on the gas, nothing.  No noise, no spinning, nothing...  The vehicle was obviously on, this is a problem.

I can see a problem in the mountains if you go off a paved road to a dirt road which climbs up the side of the mountain and there is spinning of the tires due to loose dirt, mud etc.  This would prove to be dangerous since the ICE would not run, the electric motors (as already demonstrated) will not run and the vehicle would come to a stop.  And, to top things off, you're on an incline.

There SHOULD be a way to disable this and run without the "benefits" of VDIM, as there are in other vehicles which have similar systems as VDIM.

I'm afraid this is not something I did not plan for nor did I expect.  Might list my HyHi for sale after the holidays. 

Totally unacceptable.

[snapback]2011[/snapback]

Just so I'm clear....
1)You got yourself stuck in the snow.
2)You're pissed b/c you couldn't get out of the snow.
3)You're pissed b/c Toyota didn't allow you a mechanism by which you could completely destroy your car...or at least do many thousands of dollars of non-warranty damage to it.
4)Would you be just as pissed if you had a different SUV that did allow you to spin the tires and you still couldn't get out...would that be unacceptible and cause you to sell that vehicle too?

My advice....1)Get chains if you tend to drive in the snow a lot. 2)Don't get stuck in the snow--it's pretty easy...we just had a serious snow and ICE storm a couple weeks ago. I drove our HiHy through snow 8"+ deep on top of ice. I had no issues at all with traction, didn't get stuck...and if I had I wouldn't blame Toyota for it. I've been stuck in plenty of cars that didn't have Traction control...I never blamed the car manufacturer then and I won't blame them now in a vehicle that does have traction control.

[spookysco]

Glad you asked, because you are FAR from being clear.

I expect a car to give me power when I apply the 'gas'. This car didn't do that but instead did nothing. Now that I've been through this I can see other instances (as I have already discussed) where this "feature" could be a safety issue. Not something I'm willing to go through.

Being stuck is one thing, having the "feature" kick in on an incline could be disasterous.

So, before you run your mouth and make a fool of yourself by applying grade school logic and attempting to reduce my experience to nothing but degrading comments, actually READ what was posted and understand or at least TRY to comprehend what was written before you engage your keyboard.

[Donrim]

Originally posted by spookysco@Dec 25 2006, 01:34 AM


I expect a car to give me power when I apply the 'gas'.  This car didn't do that but instead did nothing.  Now that I've been through this I can see other instances (as I have already discussed) where this "feature" could be a safety issue.  Not something I'm willing to go through.

Being stuck is one thing, having the "feature" kick in on an incline could be disasterous.

[snapback]2015[/snapback]

Some people spin the tires at high RPM’s while jamming the transmission between forward and reverse as a method to get unstuck. This is significantly damaging to any vehicle drive train. A much more gentle application of power to create a rocking motion is just as (or even more) effective and does not harm the transmission if done correctly.

If the vehicle skidded off the road and is propped up in a snow bank, resting mostly on the frame and underside rather than the wheels, you are toast in any vehicle without a bumper winch and a nearby tree.

I believe that the VDIM response in the Highlander Hybrid to a stuck-in-the-snow condition could be improved. Since the accelerator is a by-wire system, the powertrain computer (not the driver) has control of throttle response from the engine and motors. Under the proper conditions, the wheels should be allowed to turn at a slow controlled speed and for a controlled duration when the accelerator pedal is pressed and the vehicle is stationary or traveling less than 5 mph. The Highlander has RPM sensors at every wheel and knows when the vehicle is not moving. Such controlled wheelspin would not have any negative effect on the hybrid powertrain since the output power and duration would be limited within safe parameters.

A controlled wheel spin mode is definitely not such a good thing when driving on glare ice where a much more gentle application of power without wheel spin is needed to keep the vehicle under control. The vehicle probably can not discern the difference between sitting on glare ice and being stuck in a snow bank so it rightly and safely defaults to a glare ice strategy. The powertrain computer needs input from the driver as to what traction strategy to use.

I ‘propose’ that shifting the vehicle into “B” could put the vehicle into the controlled wheelspin mode for snow or steep gravel/dirt roads while “D” would handle glare ice and normal driving. All that would be needed is a revised program to be flashed into the drivetrain computer. Being realistic, I’m not holding my breath for such a modification from Toyota.

[efusco]

Originally posted by spookysco@Dec 25 2006, 12:34 AM
Glad you asked, because you are FAR from being clear.

I expect a car to give me power when I apply the 'gas'.  This car didn't do that but instead did nothing.  Now that I've been through this I can see other instances (as I have already discussed) where this "feature" could be a safety issue.  Not something I'm willing to go through.

Being stuck is one thing, having the "feature" kick in on an incline could be disasterous.

So, before you run your mouth and make a fool of yourself by applying grade school logic and attempting to reduce my experience to nothing but degrading comments, actually READ what was posted and understand or at least TRY to comprehend what was written before you engage your keyboard.

[snapback]2015[/snapback]

I'm not the least worried about looking like a fool...I've carefully read all your posts looking for the slightest clue of any problem related to the vehicle.

You want power supplied to the wheels despite the fact that that power would a)not get any traction and b)cause damage to your car. See, folks far smarter than you have worked this through....they've already figured out that spinning the tires just so you can here them spin and feel the ICE go "vroom" is pointless and could lead to serious damage. That's first grade and post-grad level logic b/c it's pure logic. Giving you useless power for the sake of your auditory satisfaction is pointless.

Don't get stuck, buy chains, take responsibility for your own faults and actions.

BTW, if you floor the pedal, and leave it there, the tires will incrementally move in an effort to get you out...the ICE won't run b/c it can't supply any additional power beyond the incredible torque that the MGs can provide..which is what you need to pull out.

Again, I have some experience with this vehicle over two winters of ownership, never got stuck and never had the slightest problem with traction. I operated the vehicle within it's designed limits and it performed perfectly and even beyond my expectations in those conditions.

YMMV